So now, in his ongoing heartburn about Beckwith swimming the Tiber, James White has become so incensed that people could disagree with him that he has compared those who disagree to Islamo-fascists.

He posted these photos:

I’m sure that soon we’ll get a Kerry-esque “botched joke” disclaimer.  Original context here

H/T Jimmy Akin

Listening to Monday’s installment of EWTN’s Open Line program, the first 10 minutes or so, host John Martignoni discusses a rather touchy email from a listener indicting his explanation of the perpetual virginity of Mary.  John proceeds to reiterate the arguments for this doctrine, from the Bible, and he can’t help but include a little of his own sarcasm.  Listen to it!

Here’s the next part!

You missed two points that I made. First the Bible teaches that when we were saved our salvation and thus our eternal life was a complete and finished work of God. We are saved only by the grace of God and by the faith in Christ given to us by the working of the Holy Spirit. Salvation is a free gift of God. We did nothing to be saved and we have nothing to boast about. Does it seem logical that you or I can fall from the hand of our loving Lord? I think not! We are secure in Him! Our eternal home in heaven is a sure as the finish work of Christ at Calvary. You and I need no further forgiveness or cleansing to enter our eternal home in heaven. There is no need for a place called Purgatory. All our sins, past, present and future were forgiven when we were saved. Our soul was washed forever clean in the sight of God by the blood of the Lamb making us fit for heaven.

Second, since you seen to equate daily repentance and forgiveness as a requirement for eternal life you miss the point of the consequences of allowing our life to be led by our fleshly lusts. When we live for self we stumble and fall and in our disobedience we sin. That sin hinders our witness for Christ to the world. It hinders our ability to serve our Lord with good works. It hinders our commutation with our Lord through prayer.

If you would be blessed of the Lord you will surrender self to the leading of the Holy Spirit and thus avoid the sin of disobedience. Remember that God hates sin. Should “you have a pet sin which you really enjoy, and so you resist repenting of it and confessing”, God may chasten you for that deliberate sin. An extreme example in Acts 5 is the death of Ananias and Sapphira who with hearts of greed lied and keep back part of the price of the land they sold. I believe these sinful people were saved and when God struck them dead they did not loose their eternal life. A component of the fear of God drives us to repentance and confession to the Lord of the daily sin we commit as we live in this sinful flesh in this present life.

My response:

Reasonable response. Allow me to clarify. I don’t believe daily repentance and forgiveness are a requirement for eternal life, but I do believe that they are a requirement for our growth, our sanctification – thus I believe our sanctification is a lifelong process completed at the time we are purified in Purgatory.

I believe that your example of Ananias and Sapphira is quite apt because their situation, much like that of King David’s loss of the son resulting from his adultery, fits in perfectly with the principle that it sin that is forgiven can still result in temporal punishment. Doesn’t hinder your salvation, but still results in suffering.

—

At this point, I am trying to gracefully end the discussion – we have made our points and we’re going to start going in circles. I keep saying how I am not trying to convince him but to inform him…he’s still trying to change my mind.

Impromptu Purgatory Discussion, Part quatre

If you haven’t already read the first 3 posts on this topic, please do that before reading this one!

My conversation partner responds:

First, thanks for clearing up my thinking concerning the Catholic Church and Purgatory. I have always thought that your church taught that salvation was administered through the church and that lost sinners would have opportunity be forgiven of sins and enter heaven after they had died. I thought the idea was that the lost soul didn’t go straight to hell but given a ’stop-over’ in Purgatory. While in Purgatory the church was able to administer forgiveness and this lost soul would then enter heaven. The net result was that every member of the Catholic Church would go to heaven. From what you said that is not the teaching of your church. We agree that the decision to accept or reject God’s free gift of eternal life is the choice everyone must make in this present age.

I would like to address with this email your statement, “Purgatory is a final purification, but it’s a purification of those who have chosen to accept what’s been freely given.” This statement implies that for a believer a final purification from sin is needed. I call your attention to two Bible references. First, Romans 6:22-23 followed by Ephesians 2:8-10.

Rom 6:22-23

22 But now having been set free from sin, and having become slaves of God, you have your fruit to holiness, and the end, everlasting life. 23 For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

NKJV

Read the heart of verse 22. “Now having been set free for sin — you have — everlasting life.” And then read the end of verse 23. “The gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.” When the Lord saved us by his free gift we WERE (past tense) set free from sin and we WERE (past tense) given eternal life. Do you think it reasonable that our Lord would take back that free gift and our eternal life? I think not! Our eternal life is dependent entirely on Him; on His death, burial and resurrection and not upon what we do or do not do. Note the Romans 6:22 that we are slaves of God. As slaves we are solely dependent upon our Master and it is in Him that we live or die.

Eph 2:3-10

4 But God, who is rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, 5 even when we were dead in trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), 6 and raised us up together, and made us sit together in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, 7 that in the ages to come He might show the exceeding riches of His grace in His kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. 8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast. 10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.

NKJV

Notice that God, because of His great love for us HAS made us alive with Christ and HAS raised us up together with Him. For every born again believer this is a finished work. God has done this for His glory, not for ours, that He might show forth His kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. We are saved only by the grace of God and by the faith in Christ given to us by the working of the Holy Spirit. Salvation is a free gift of God. We did nothing to be saved and we have nothing to boast about. Does it seem logical that you or I can fall from the hand of our loving Lord? I think not! We are secure in Him! Our eternal home in heaven is a sure as the finish work of Christ at Calvary.

I do not understand why but the Lord chose to keep us in this human body until he calls us home. Because we live in this human body with its natural lusts, we have a spiritual challenge to do the good works ‘which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them’. We are in Christ Jesus (a done deal) for the purpose of doing good works.

As believers we have the presence of the Holy Spirit abiding in us to guide us and give us the ability to do good works. But we have the lust of the flesh that is able to prevent us from following the leading of the Holy Spirit. Yes, we do stumble and fall and in our disobedience we sin. That sin hinders our witness to the world. It hinders our ability to serve our Lord. It hinders our commutation with our Lord through prayer. I thank the Lord for 1 John 1:9.

1 John 1:9-10

9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

NKJV

This wonderful daily cleansing is available to all of us. But my daily falling and stumbling is not able to separate me from the love of God and His great salvation that is in Christ Jesus.

Rom 8:37-39

37 Yet in all these things we are more than conquerors through Him who loved us. 38 For I am persuaded that neither death nor life, nor angels nor principalities nor powers, nor things present nor things to come, 39 nor height nor depth, nor any other created thing, shall be able to separate us from the love of God which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

NKJV

And I respond:

Well, your first paragraph indicates that I have reached my goal in even having this conversation – to inform you about the authentic teaching of the Catholic Church and to give you the backup for it. We could go back and forth a good bit more and neither of us is going to convince the other that we’ve got it right…because it truly does come down to interpretation of Scripture. Interpret it one way and you get Purgatory, interpret it the other way and you don’t.

That said, let me pose one question to one point you brought up:

1 John 1:9-10

9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

NKJV

This wonderful daily cleansing is available to all of us. But my daily falling and stumbling is not able to separate me from the love of God and His great salvation that is in Christ Jesus.

Now the last thing I want here is to start a second line of discussion on Catholics and confession (that should be considered separately so we don’t try and attack multiple topics at one time.) So, in this upcoming paragraph, when I refer to repenting/confessing/asking forgiveness, I am staying within your framework, confessing directly to God.

The teaching is that in Purgatory you are purified of sins you haven’t yet confessed. At the time of baptism and then each time you repent of and confess your sins, you are cleansed. The problem comes in with the sins which you resist confessing due to pride, or outright rebellion for that matter…let’s say you have a pet sin which you really enjoy, and so you resist repenting of it and confessing. It doesn’t call into question your salvation at all – that’s been freely given and you’ve accepted it. Still, what about those sins you have just not repented of and asked forgiveness for at the time of death? By your own decision to avoid repenting of those sins, you’ve not received the wonderful daily cleansing that’s available for those specific sins. Those are the sins which are cleansed from you in Purgatory – they still exist on your soul because you’ve not repented, confessed, and asked that you be cleansed of them on Earth.

Read the first and second posts in the series, then come back here and read this post!

Here, my fellow traveler expresses his interpretation of the passage in Matthew 12 in which Jesus states that blasphemy against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven in this age or the age to come (which to me implies that it’s possible that something can be forgiven in the age to come.)

You are correct. The Bible speaks of two ages or two worlds. This present age or world is this present time period, possibly beginning with creation of the earth. This present age or world and thus this world will end. See for example Matthew 28:20.

Matthew 28:20
20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.
KJV

Other versions use the word “age” for world. Since this age will end there must be a new age for which we can determine the beginning. This present age will end when the present creation is gone and there is a new creation indicating a new age.

Revelation 21:1
1 Now I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away.
NKJV

2 Peter 3:13
13 Nevertheless we, according to His promise, look for new heavens and a new earth in which righteousness dwells.
NKJV

In the new age only righteousness will dwell indicating that our heavenly home will be there. There can be no sin in the new age. Since there can be no sin there is no forgiveness. Blasphemy against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven because there will be none in the new age of eternity future which will have no end.

Regarding lost people: Revelation 19:11-15 describes the Great White Throne judgment where all the lost of this present age are thrown into the lake of fire. This judgment will occur as this present age is ending so no lost person will be found in the new age. It is only in this present age that people are given the choice to accept or reject the revelation of God given them by the Holy Spirit. In heaven will be saved people forever more.

My response:

So in your interpretation, you are saying that there is no forgiveness of anything in the age to come because the age to come is heaven so there’s no need for forgiveness since there’s no sin there?

While I see where you’re coming from, it just strikes me as odd that Jesus said that there will be no forgiveness of blasphemy against the Holy Spirit, either in this age or the next. To me for Jesus to mention that something CAN’T be forgiven in the next age implies that there is a flipside – that something CAN be forgiven in the next age – and I think it’s clear that we agree that in neither heaven nor hell is any forgiveness present/necessary.

In any event, I appreciate the input you’ve given and especially the civil way in which you have shared your interpretations.

My impression is that we’ll be putting this passage in Matthew to bed because we have each expressed our views and clearly there’s not further purpose to discussing it. Of course we should be able to continue on the subject of where one suffers loss as through fire yet is saved from I Corinthians.

As I said to my coworker who got this whole thing started, and I would throw out to any of my fellow amateur apologists reading this, my point here is not to change anyone’s mind (though if the Holy Spirit decides to work in that way I am pleased to be His tool) but simply to inform. Too many folks out there disagree with a distorted version of the Catholic teaching on this or that subject, and I would much rather have someone be informed of what the authentic Catholic teaching is and disagree with that!

BTW, your ideas in the combox will be helpful too!

You need to read the first post in the series before you read this one.

Here is the next response from the other party in the discussion:

There are several Bible references to our going to heaven when we die. Here is one. Paul wrote in 2 Corinthians 5:8 that he was willing to be absent from the body and to be present with the Lord.

2 Corinthians 5:8
8 We are confident, yes, well pleased rather to be absent from the body and to be present with the Lord.

Paul was looking forward to going to be present with the Lord in heaven when he died. Our blessed, living hope is to soon be present with our Lord and Savior and to see him face to face. Because of his great sacrificial love for us we will praise him for all eternity in our heavenly home. See also Philippians 1:23, John 14:6, John 17:24 and 1 John 3:2.

In the 1 Corinthians 3 passage the inspired writer is addressing saved people who are believers in the finished work of Christ. The subject is the works we do for Christ in this present life and not our sins. You may wish to begin reading at verse 5. I print 1 Corinthians 3:10-15.

1 Cor 3:10-15
10 According to the grace of God which was given to me, as a wise master builder I have laid the foundation, and another builds on it. But let each one take heed how he builds on it. 11 For no other foundation can anyone lay than that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ. 12 Now if anyone builds on this foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw, 13 each one’s work will become clear; for the Day will declare it, because it will be revealed by fire; and the fire will test each one’s work, of what sort it is. 14 If anyone’s work which he has built on it endures, he will receive a reward. 15 If anyone’s work is burned, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire.
NKJV

There is coming a time of judgment of our works where they will be tested by a fire judgment to determine of what sort they are. Some works will endure this judgment and be rewarded while other works will be lost. But the believing person is still saved even though his works are lost in the fire judgment and will not be rewarded.

It is important to understand that the saved person is not being judged for sin. All our sins; past, present and future were all washed clean by the blood of Christ and our eternal life is secure in Christ. This passage should not be confused with the forgiveness of our sins.

The Matthew 12 passage deals with what is called “the unpardonable sin”. Much has been written on this topic. Every person is born a sinner and thus unfit to enter heaven. Romans 1:18-21 indicates that God has given a revelation of himself to every person so that those who reject his saving grace are without excuse as they go the way of eternal destruction. Those who reject his saving grace must reject Bible truth concerning our great salvation. It is the work of the Holy Spirit to give universal revelation of God to mankind. To reject that revelation is blasphemy against the Holy Spirit leading to the conclusion that only Christ rejecting people commit the unpardonable sin.

You will note that in Matthew 12 Jesus is addressing the Pharisees who have already rejected Jesus and the revelation of God by the Holy Spirit. In this passage they accuse the Son of God of being a worker of Satan. Jesus call them a brood of snakes and indicates that their words are evil. Verse 37 indicates they are condemn by their evil words. The Lord’s loving forgiving grace was rejected by these Pharisees.

Now – the first 3 paragraphs I didn’t address because they are rather peripheral in comparison to the other stuff. Myself, I don’t see how the passage he cites indicates that one must be EITHER present in the flesh OR present with Christ. It doesn’t say that there’s not a place “in between.” On to my response.

First, to the idea of suffering as through fire yet being saved:

You said,

There is coming a time of judgment of our works where they will be tested by a fire judgment to determine of what sort they are. Some works will endure this judgment and be rewarded while other works will be lost. But the believing person is still saved even though his works are lost in the fire judgment and will not be rewarded.

I find this really interesting. You state, if I may paraphrase, that our works go with our souls when we die, to a place/time/state of being in which our works are judged – tested through fire.

Would you agree that when we refer to works, we are either referring to good works or sins? That’s all works are – sins or not sins, right?

Therefore, I understand you to say that our sins and our “not sins,” our good works, will be tested through a fire judgement. And some of our works – our good works, will survive this judgement and they will be rewarded. And our works that are not good works, our sins, will be burned up and separated from us. Naturally, they won’t be rewarded.

Based upon my understanding of what you are saying, you have succinctly described the Catholic teaching of Purgatory. The bad stuff is burned up and doesn’t survive and the good stuff does. I’m beginning to believe that you and the Catholic Church have no disagreement with each other on this subject.

Again, let me thank you for the reasoned and civil discussion we have been having.

And now to my response about the idea that there is a sin which won’t be forgiven in this age or in the age to come:

Okay, I do agree with the explanation of the context of the Matthew 12 passage. But what I am asking for is an explanation of
“it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come.” (KJV)
or
“will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come.” (NIV)
or
“it shall not be forgiven him, either in ^{( AJ)}this age or in the age to come.” (NASB)

Now we’re talking about 2 ages here. I take the meaning of “this age” to refer to the current human state of existence on Earth (and the coinciding era of time in which humans have existed on Earth.) Therefore, the question is, what is the age or world to come in this verse? Does it make sense for the age/world to come in this verse to be either heaven or hell?

Now, logically, if Jesus tells us that a sin will not be forgiven, not in this age or world, or the age or world to come, then that means some other sin can be forgiven both in this age/world and the age/world to come.

So let’s take heaven first: can something be forgiven in heaven? No, there is no sin in heaven; so people who have received the gift of heaven no longer have sin on their souls…no forgiveness necessary.

How about hell? Is there any forgiveness in hell? No, there is no exit from hell, therefore the souls in hell cannot receive forgiveness, and even if they did it would give them no benefit.

So, therefore, where/what is the age/world to come where one can receive forgiveness?

More in my next post!

This is a fun one. My first real solid opportunity for apologetics, and I am up against a Ph.D. It all started yesterday when a coworker pulled me aside and said that at his breakfast prayer meeting, someone made some offhanded remarks about how the Catholic Church created Purgatory to make money (I know you’ve never heard that one before.) I forwarded him the Catholic Answers article on Purgatory. Little did I know this would be the jumping-off point for a spirited discussion of the subject. My whole point in providing the info to my coworker was to say, it’s fine to disagree, just make sure you’re disagreeing with the authentic teaching and not the bastardization that is perpetuated by those who are anti Catholic (and no, I didn’t use those exact words to express that to him). He forwarded the article on to the rest of the group, which prompted this response (indicated by the block quote):

Here is Biblical truth for you all to consider:
xxxx

1 Peter 3:18b-19
the Spirit, 19 by whom also He went and preached to the spirits in prison, 20 who formerly were disobedient, when once the Divine longsuffering waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was being prepared, in which a few, that is, eight souls, were saved through water.

Question: Who were the spirits in prison that Jesus preached to? Look at Luke 16:19-29.

Luke 16:19-31
19 “There was a certain rich man who was clothed in purple and fine linen and fared sumptuously every day. 20 But there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, full of sores, who was laid at his gate, 21 desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man’s table. Moreover the dogs came and licked his sores. 22 So it was that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels to Abraham’s bosom. The rich man also died and was buried. 23 And being in torments in Hades, he lifted up his eyes and saw Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom. 24 Then he cried and said, ‘Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus that he may dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.’ 25 But Abraham said, ‘Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things; but now he is comforted and you are tormented. 26 And besides all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed, so that those who want to pass from here to you cannot, nor can those from there pass to us.’ 27 Then he said, ‘I beg you therefore, father, that you would send him to my father’s house, 28 for I have five brothers, that he may testify to them, lest they also come to this place of torment.’ 29 Abraham said to him, ‘They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.’ 30 And he said, ‘No, father Abraham; but if one goes to them from the dead, they will repent.’ 31 But he said to him, ‘If they do not hear Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded though one rise from the dead.’ “NKJV

The rich man and Lazarus both when to the ‘heart of the Earth’. Notice that there were two regions. One, where the rich man went was a place of flames of torment called Hades. The other where Lazarus was carried by the angels was a place of comfort called ‘Abraham’s bosom’ or in other places ‘paradise’. The ‘spirits in prison’ were formerly disobedient but they were saved like the eight souls in the ark at the preaching of Noah. Look at 2 Peter 2:4-5.

2 Peter 2:4-5
4 For if God did not spare the angels who sinned, but cast them down to hell and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved for judgment; 5 and did not spare the ancient world, but saved Noah, one of eight people, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood on the world of the ungodly; NKJV

The fallen angels were cast in the hell, in chains and in darkness. This is not the Hades where the rich man went because he had light to see into paradise and there is no mention of his chains. These fallen angels will some day be cast into the lake of fire prepared for the devil. See Matthew 25:41 and Revelation 20:10. Like the rich man, all ungodly lost people will go to Hades to await the judgment at the Great White Throne of Revelation 20:11-15.

Following his crucifixion Jesus went in the spirit to the ‘heart of the earth’ where he preached to the souls in paradise. Compare 1 Peter 3:19 with Matthew 12:40.

Matthew 12:40
40 For as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of the great fish, so will the Son of Man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.NKJV

Recall also our Lord’s words to the repentant thief on the cross, “Today you shall be with me in paradise”. (Luke 23:43)

When the 3 days were ended and it came time for Jesus to leave the tomb, his spirit was united with his resurrection body. Recall Jesus’ conservation with Mary Magdalene whom he met immediately after he left the tomb. Jesus told her not to touch him because he was not yet ascended. See John 20:17

John 20:17
17 Jesus said to her, “Do not cling to Me, for I have not yet ascended to My Father; but go to My brethren and say to them, ‘I am ascending to My Father and your Father, and to My God and your God.’ ” NKJV

Jesus continued ascending to God the Father in heaven at that time. When Jesus ascended he emptied paradise, taking all the righteous Old Testament souls, including Lazarus, home to heaven. Look at Ephesians 4:8-10.

Ephesians 4:8-10
8 Therefore He says: “When He ascended on high, He led captivity captive, and gave gifts to men.” 9(Now this, “He ascended”–what does it mean but that He also first descended into the lower parts of the earth? 10 He who descended is also the One who ascended far above all the heavens, that He might fill all things.)

NKJV

The ‘captivity captive’ refers to the spirits in prison that Jesus preached to while in the heart of the Earth.

Conclusion: THERE IS NO PLACE AND THERE NEVER WAS A PLACE LIKE WHAT IS CALLED PURGATORY. Remember that great gulf between Abraham’s bosom and Hades in Luke 16:16? Prior to the ascension of Christ at his resurrection saved souls were in ‘paradise’ or ‘Abraham’s bosom’. Lost souls were separated from them and tormented in Hades. Today all lost souls join them in Hades awaiting the final judgment and an eternity in the lake of fire with the devil and his angels. Today all saved souls are taken by the angels to heaven to forever be in the presence of the Lord.

Now I don’t see how the stuff he’s provided supports the statement that he makes in all caps in the final paragraph. Nonetheless, I responded:

I can certainly agree with the points xxxx makes. We don’t deny that Jesus did descend to the dead/bosom of Abraham/whatever you want to call it at which time he ministered to essentially the souls of people who had died in God’s good graces but not reached heaven yet (we have records indicating the Jews prayed for the souls of their dead for centuries – they must have thought there was some benefit to doing this) – it’s in the Apostles’ Creed, which was the first Christian profession of faith that was ever written out.

The thing for me is that these seem to all refer back to people who died prior to Christ’s resurrection; we do believe that the Old Testament saints were raised as a result of Christ’s ministering to them during the period between His death and resurrection. Dr. Rhoades says “Today all saved souls are taken by the angels to heaven” but I don’t see his scripture references even addressing what happens today, just how things were at the time of Christ’s death and resurrection.

I’d be interested in how Dr. Rhoades would explain the place where one suffers loss as through fire yet is saved (1 Cor. 3:15) and for that matter how one can receive forgiveness in the age to come (Matt. 12:32) if the only two choices are heaven and hell.

The next round will come in my next post.

Those of you who’ve been around a while must think John Martignoni and I are best buds or something. I post about his apologetics work a good bit. Well, I can’t help myself. In his e-newsletter each week, he posts real-life email conversation he has with people who disagree with the Catholic Church…and by way of his conversation he does a great deal of teaching to those of us reading, about how to give an answer to our faith. In today’s newsletter, he’s conversing with a Canadian minister, and touches on the subject of essential vs. non-essential doctrines. The minister appears to agree with John that the concept shouldn’t exist because in general, it’s not okay to be wrong and know we’re wrong, because it’s rather self-serving to say, “well, I have the essentials right but I disagree on the nonessentials.” The minister then goes on to explain what he perceives to be the existence of essential vs. nonessential doctrines within the Catholic Church. John clears up the confusion very cleanly. The minister’s side is in italic, John’s response in in boldface.

It seems to me that the Roman Catholic church has drawn some lines. The RC church does not seem to have doctrinal conformity from every country, parish, and Christian. All I have to do is call a RC friend and have a conversation about to birth control to verify this fact. But the RC church still accepts that “believer in error” as “one of theirs.” So, in a way, the RC church practices the concept I am talking about. It is not ok (according to the RC church) for these people to disagree about birth control. But it does not seem to be essential for fellowship and they are not excommunicated. I do not feel that the same understanding is extended to other sincere followers of Christ.

Here you seem to not fully understand Catholic teaching and practice. You are correct – the Roman Catholic Church does not have doctrinal conformity from every country, parish, or Christian – which is to the possible spiritual demise of those who are not in conformity with the teachings of the Church. However, the Church does have doctrinal conformity in its teachings. This cannot be said for the Christian faith traditions that teach essentials vs. non-essentials (by the way, who gets to decide what is an essential and what is a non-essential?). And, for those who are not in conformity with Church teachings…those who believe and practice, for example, contraception…this is a very grave matter, and fellowship indeed has been broken. The Church does not need to break fellowship with them, because they have broken fellowship with the Church.

Whether it be contraception or some other area of non-conformity to Church teaching, these folks have broken fellowship with the Church, with the Body of Christ. Again, this is a very serious and grave matter. They should not receive Communion (the Lord’s Supper) if such is the case. They should not receive Communion, because they are not in communion with the Church. They are, in essence, out of fellowship with the Church until they repent and confess their sins and receive absolution. They may be “sincere followers of Christ,” but they are sincerely wrong in what they are doing. And, the Church extends the exact same understanding to non-Catholics who err in their beliefs…it tells them they are wrong and asks them to come to the knowledge of the truth…the truth that will set them free.

You can read John’s newsletters here, or better yet, subscribe.