Impromptu Purgatory Discussion, Part quatre

If you haven’t already read the first 3 posts on this topic, please do that before reading this one!

My conversation partner responds:

First, thanks for clearing up my thinking concerning the Catholic Church and Purgatory. I have always thought that your church taught that salvation was administered through the church and that lost sinners would have opportunity be forgiven of sins and enter heaven after they had died. I thought the idea was that the lost soul didn’t go straight to hell but given a ’stop-over’ in Purgatory. While in Purgatory the church was able to administer forgiveness and this lost soul would then enter heaven. The net result was that every member of the Catholic Church would go to heaven. From what you said that is not the teaching of your church. We agree that the decision to accept or reject God’s free gift of eternal life is the choice everyone must make in this present age.

I would like to address with this email your statement, “Purgatory is a final purification, but it’s a purification of those who have chosen to accept what’s been freely given.” This statement implies that for a believer a final purification from sin is needed. I call your attention to two Bible references. First, Romans 6:22-23 followed by Ephesians 2:8-10.

Rom 6:22-23

22 But now having been set free from sin, and having become slaves of God, you have your fruit to holiness, and the end, everlasting life. 23 For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

NKJV

Read the heart of verse 22. “Now having been set free for sin — you have — everlasting life.” And then read the end of verse 23. “The gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.” When the Lord saved us by his free gift we WERE (past tense) set free from sin and we WERE (past tense) given eternal life. Do you think it reasonable that our Lord would take back that free gift and our eternal life? I think not! Our eternal life is dependent entirely on Him; on His death, burial and resurrection and not upon what we do or do not do. Note the Romans 6:22 that we are slaves of God. As slaves we are solely dependent upon our Master and it is in Him that we live or die.

Eph 2:3-10

4 But God, who is rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, 5 even when we were dead in trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), 6 and raised us up together, and made us sit together in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, 7 that in the ages to come He might show the exceeding riches of His grace in His kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. 8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast. 10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.

NKJV

Notice that God, because of His great love for us HAS made us alive with Christ and HAS raised us up together with Him. For every born again believer this is a finished work. God has done this for His glory, not for ours, that He might show forth His kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. We are saved only by the grace of God and by the faith in Christ given to us by the working of the Holy Spirit. Salvation is a free gift of God. We did nothing to be saved and we have nothing to boast about. Does it seem logical that you or I can fall from the hand of our loving Lord? I think not! We are secure in Him! Our eternal home in heaven is a sure as the finish work of Christ at Calvary.

I do not understand why but the Lord chose to keep us in this human body until he calls us home. Because we live in this human body with its natural lusts, we have a spiritual challenge to do the good works ‘which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them’. We are in Christ Jesus (a done deal) for the purpose of doing good works.

As believers we have the presence of the Holy Spirit abiding in us to guide us and give us the ability to do good works. But we have the lust of the flesh that is able to prevent us from following the leading of the Holy Spirit. Yes, we do stumble and fall and in our disobedience we sin. That sin hinders our witness to the world. It hinders our ability to serve our Lord. It hinders our commutation with our Lord through prayer. I thank the Lord for 1 John 1:9.

1 John 1:9-10

9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

NKJV

This wonderful daily cleansing is available to all of us. But my daily falling and stumbling is not able to separate me from the love of God and His great salvation that is in Christ Jesus.

Rom 8:37-39

37 Yet in all these things we are more than conquerors through Him who loved us. 38 For I am persuaded that neither death nor life, nor angels nor principalities nor powers, nor things present nor things to come, 39 nor height nor depth, nor any other created thing, shall be able to separate us from the love of God which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

NKJV

And I respond:

Well, your first paragraph indicates that I have reached my goal in even having this conversation – to inform you about the authentic teaching of the Catholic Church and to give you the backup for it. We could go back and forth a good bit more and neither of us is going to convince the other that we’ve got it right…because it truly does come down to interpretation of Scripture. Interpret it one way and you get Purgatory, interpret it the other way and you don’t.

That said, let me pose one question to one point you brought up:

1 John 1:9-10

9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

NKJV

This wonderful daily cleansing is available to all of us. But my daily falling and stumbling is not able to separate me from the love of God and His great salvation that is in Christ Jesus.

Now the last thing I want here is to start a second line of discussion on Catholics and confession (that should be considered separately so we don’t try and attack multiple topics at one time.) So, in this upcoming paragraph, when I refer to repenting/confessing/asking forgiveness, I am staying within your framework, confessing directly to God.

The teaching is that in Purgatory you are purified of sins you haven’t yet confessed. At the time of baptism and then each time you repent of and confess your sins, you are cleansed. The problem comes in with the sins which you resist confessing due to pride, or outright rebellion for that matter…let’s say you have a pet sin which you really enjoy, and so you resist repenting of it and confessing. It doesn’t call into question your salvation at all – that’s been freely given and you’ve accepted it. Still, what about those sins you have just not repented of and asked forgiveness for at the time of death? By your own decision to avoid repenting of those sins, you’ve not received the wonderful daily cleansing that’s available for those specific sins. Those are the sins which are cleansed from you in Purgatory – they still exist on your soul because you’ve not repented, confessed, and asked that you be cleansed of them on Earth.